Tag Archives: Ghadir

Umar the Caliph says: Ali is my Mawla

al-Salamu `Aleykum,

I’m sure you have all heard of this incident where `Umar during his Khilafah calls `Ali his Mawla, a version of it is found in Shia books, another is found in Sunni books but I was never able to find a chain for it.

Recently, I was browsing through the book “al-Riyad al-Nadirah” and I found him quoting it without a chain, he attributed it to Ibn al-Samman in his popular book of virtues, sadly this book is lost.. another source was al-Daraqutni’s book of virtues but unfortunately as well, most of this book is lost and the part that remains doesn’t include it.

Finally, I tried looking for this Hadith in the bigger encyclopedias, I found someone attributing it to Tarikh Dimashq, luckily I found it there with two chains.

أَخْبَرَنَا أَبُو بَكْرٍ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْبَاقِي، وَأَبُو الْمَوَاهِبِ أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْمَلِكِ، قَالا: أنا أَبُو مُحَمَّدٍ الْجَوْهَرِيُّ، أنا أَبُو الْحُسَيْنِ بْنُ الْمُظَفَّرِ، نا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ الْبَاغَنْدِيُّ، نا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عُثْمَانَ بْنِ حَكِيمٍ الأَوْدِيُّ، نا شُرَيْحُ بْنُ مَسْلَمَةَ، نا إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الْجَبَّارِ بْنِ الْعَبَّاسِ الشَّامِيِّ، عَنْ عَمَّارٍ الدُّهْنِيِّ، عَنْ أَبِي فَاخِتَةَ، قَالَ: أَقْبَلَ عَلِيٌّ وَعُمَرُ جالس في مجلسه، فلما رآه عمر تضعضع وتواضع وتوسع له في المجلس، فلما قام علي، قَالَ بَعْضُ الْقَوْمِ: يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ: إِنَّكَ تَصْنَعُ بِعَلِيٍّ صَنِيعًا مَا تَصْنَعُهُ بِأَحَدٍ مِنْ أَصْحَابِ مُحَمَّدٍ، قَالَ عُمَرُ: وَمَا رَأَيْتَنِي أَصْنَعُ بِهِ؟ قَالَ: رَأَيْتُكَ كُلَّمَا رَأَيْتَهُ تَضَعْضَعْتَ وَتَوَاضَعْتَ وَأَوْسَعْتَ حَتَّى يَجْلِسَ، قَالَ: ” وَمَا يَمْنَعُنِي، وَاللَّهِ إِنَّهُ لَمَوْلايَ وَمَوْلَى كُلِّ مُؤْمِنٍ

[We were told by Abu Bakr Muhammad bin `Abdul-Baqi and by abu al-Mawahib Ahmad bin `Abdul-Malik, they both said: Abu Muhammad al-Jawhari told us, abu al-Husayn al-Muzaffar told us, Muhammad bin Muhammad al-Baghandi told us, Ahmad bin `Uthman bin Hakeem al-Awdi told us, Shurayh bin Maslamah told us, Ibrahim bin Yusuf told us, from `Abdul-Jabbar bin al-`Abbas al-Shami, from `Ammar al-Duhani, from abu Fakhitah that he said:

`Ali came to `Umar while he was sitting in his Majlis (place of gathering), so when `Umar saw him he became muddled and humble, then he moved to offer him comfortable sitting place. Later when `Ali left the gathering, some of the people asked: “O Ameer al-Mu’mineen, you treat `Ali unlike anyone from the companions of Muhammad (saw)?” `Umar said to the man: “How do you see my behavior towards him?” The man said: “I notice that whenever you see him you become muddled and you humble yourself to him and move to the side that he may sit comfortably.”

`Umar said: “And what’s preventing me from doing so? By Allah, he is my Mawla and the Mawla of every believer.”]

Source: Tarikh Dimashq 42/235.

I have to admit that this is one of those clear narrations which shows how the early generations understood the meaning of Muwalat in the Hadith of Ghadeer, not as leadership but as love and closeness.

Written by Hani
Original post link
Posted here by 13S2010


Filed under Ahlulbait-Sahaba relations, Clarification about sunni hadiths, History

The Prophet [SAWS] did not announce the Wilayah of `Ali [ra]

al-Salamu `Aleykum,

al-Kafi 2/224:

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَبِي نَصْرٍ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا الْحَسَنِ الرِّضَا ( عليه السلام ) عَنْ مَسْأَلَةٍ فَأَبَى وَ أَمْسَكَ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَوْ أَعْطَيْنَاكُمْ كُلَّمَا تُرِيدُونَ كَانَ شَرّاً لَكُمْ وَ أُخِذَ بِرَقَبَةِ صَاحِبِ هَذَا الْأَمْرِ قَالَ أَبُو جَعْفَرٍ ( عليه السلام ) وَلَايَةُ اللَّهِ أَسَرَّهَا إِلَى جَبْرَئِيلَ ( عليه السلام ) وَ أَسَرَّهَا جَبْرَئِيلُ إِلَى مُحَمَّدٍ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) وَ أَسَرَّهَا مُحَمَّدٌ إِلَى عَلِيٍّ ( عليه السلام ) وَ أَسَرَّهَا عَلِيٌّ إِلَى مَنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ ثُمَّ أَنْتُمْ تُذِيعُونَ ذَلِكَ … فاتقوا الله و لا تذيعوا حديثنا

[Muhammad bin Yahya, from Ahmad bin Muhammad, from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin abi Nasr that he said: I asked abu al-Hassan al-Rida (as) about a matter but he refused to answer, then he said: If we were to give you all that you request, it would bring evil upon you, and the one responsible for this affair(infallible Imam) would lose his neck. abu Ja`far (as) said:

The Wilayah of Allah, He told it to Jibreel (as) secretly, and Jibreel (as) told it to Muhammad (SAWS) secretly, and Muhammad (SAWS) told it to `Ali (as) secretly, and `Ali (as) told it secretly to whomever Allah wanted, but you(shia) announce it (…) so fear Allah and do not publicly announce our Hadiths “]

Majlisi: Sahih – al-Mir’at 9/192.
Behbudi: Sahih al-Kafi 1/99.

In brief the Prophet (SAWS) did not announce the Wilayah of `Ali (ra), nor did the people know who the Imam of their time was.

By Hani (aka TripolySunni)
Posted by 13S2010

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Filed under Articles, Revealing Shia sect, Shiite's sahih hadith

Former Shia about the doctrine of Imāmah

بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم

This article is written by our brother, SalehNeji/Wasil, a former Shia, may Allah (swt) keep him healthy and grant him long life and success in both worlds. Mashallah, the brother has made strong points and asked serious questions and I ask the open minded Shia to ponder over what he has written.

The Ahlulbayt (ra) never believed in the so called divine Imamate. These beliefs were attributed to them and they themselves weren’t even aware of it just like the Christians attribute divinity to Isa ibn Maryam (as).

Note: The article maybe updated.


salam alaykom

Brothers and sisters i was thinking and i was wondering: if belief in imamate of the twelve was compulsory then why wasen’t it narrated in mutawatir hadith . even in shia books the wasyyah seems only for few people . rasool allah(saww) was sent to all human kind and he used to tell all sahabah that are present to inform those who were not. the hadith of twelve imams was only said to handful of people in shia books and this is against the spirit of the message. rasool allah was not scared to convey what allah orders him , he didn’t fear the kuffar of mecca when he was alone so how could he fear muslims upon his deen and not tell them about the imamate of the twelve. yes he said there will be twelve khalifah but he didn’t say follow them or who they are . it’s a strange to me.

if the wasyyah when he(saww) was dying was about this then why didn’t he tell the muslims before his death and illness??

why wait until he was so frail and weak ?? 

if wasyyah was about imamate ali (as)(when the prophet saww was ill) then this means that hadith al-ghadeer was not clear enough otherwise why did rasool allah(saww) needed to explain it on his deathbed? 

It seems to me that hadith al-ghadeer about wilayat was understood in so many ways and that sahabah didn’t deliberately push ali(as) away from khilafat , they simply understood that wilayat meant alliance not rule and the context in which the hadith was said strengthens this. 

just few thoughts and i hope the discussion stays civil and calm

ps: i believe in imamate of the twelve but i don’t believe it’s fardh or that it’s from usool al-deen. i don’t believe the imams (as) were masoom but they were from awlia allah and their purpose was not to rule but to educate the ummah about their deen 


Written by the ex-Shia  SalehNeji/Wasil. 
Posted and Introduction by 13S2010
Original Article here

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Filed under Articles, Question bank for shiite's, Revealing Shia sect