Monthly Archives: September 2010

Unveiling myth of shia main books


Is al kafi we have today the same Al Kafi which was written by Kulayni (died 329 hijri)? or were they recently played with and changed to suit the beliefs of modern day Shia? We found this narration in the Book al Kafi which aroused suspicion BIG TIME.

1 – محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن الحسين بن سعيد، عن علي بن أسباط عن الحكم بن مسكين، عن بعض أصحابنا قال: قلت لابي عبدالله عليه السلام متى يعرف الاخير ما عند الاول؟ قال: في آخر دقيقة تبقى من روحه

1- Muhamad bin Yahya from Ahmad bin Muhammad from Hussein bin Sa’eed from Ali bin asbat from al Hakam bin Miskeen from some of our friends That he said: I said to abu Abdullah PBUH when does the last one know what is with the first one? He said: In the last remaining minute of his soul.

[Al Kafi]

The Link to Al Kafi: http://www.alhikmeh.com/arabic/mktba/hadith/alkafi01/09.htm

Under such chapters as “That When the Imams Want to Know They Will Know” and “That the Imams know when they die and they Die when they choose to” and “That The Imams have the knowledge of what was and what is to be and that Nothing is ever hidden from them” and other such Kufri chapters you’ll reach on page 274 a Chapter called “وقت ما يعلم الامام جميع علم الامام الذي كان قبله” “The Time when the Imam learns all the knowledge of the Imam which preceded him“.

You’ll also find two Other narrations in this door with different Chain of narrators:

2 – محمد، عن محمد بن الحسين، عن علي بن أسباط، عن الحكم بن مسكين، عن عبيد بن زرارة وجماعة معه قالوا: سمعنا أبا عبدالله (عليه السلام) يقول: يعرف الذي بعد
الامام علم من كان قبله في آخر دقيقة تبقى من روحه.
3 – محمد بن يحيى، عن محمد بن الحسين، عن يعقوب بن يزيد، عن علي بن أسباط، عن بعض أصحابه، عن أبي عبدالله (عليه السلام) قال: قلت له: الامام متى يعرف إمامته وينتهي الامر إليه؟ قال: في آخر دقيقة من حياة الاول.

Both are like the first one and they use the term “minute” to specify time, which is of course unheard of in their time.

Second chain is: Muhammad from Muhammad bin al Hussein from Ali bin Asbat from al Hakam bin Miskeen from Ubaydah bin Zurarah and a group of people with him: we heard Abu Abdullah Say…

Third Chain is: Muhammad bin Yahya from Muhammad bin al Hussein from ya’aqoob bin Yazeed from Ali bin Asbat from some of his friends from Abu Abdullah PBUH.

Arabic dictionaries dating to that time were checked and the term “Minute” was NON-Existent ! Because there is no such thing as a Clock Back then which calculates minutes and seconds, And we all know the events of this hadith were happening in around 140 hijri.

The simple question is, Who Is Adding Narrations to al Kafi after several hundred years? did Kulayni have a pocket watch in which he used it to calculate minutes and seconds?

We Know that the mechanical clock wasn’t invented before 700 years.

The Word minute was used to specify time in these Shia books:

الكافي للكليني المتوفى سنة 329 هـ
Al Kafi for Kulayni who died 329 hijri.
و بصائر الدرجات للصفار المتوفى سنة 290 هـ
Basa’er al Darajat for Al Saffar who died 290 hijri.
و الإمامة والتبصرة لابن بابويه القمي والد الصدوق المتوفى سنة 329 هـ
Al Imamah wal Tabsirah for Ibn babaweih al Qummi the Father of Al Saduq who died 329 hijri.

This Clear Lie was not found in the books of the Twelvers who were written much later in time such as:

كمؤلفات الصدوق المتوفى سنة 381 هـ مع تعددها
Books of Saduq (d.381 h)
ومؤلفات المفيد المتوفى سنة 413 هـ مع تعددها
Books of Mufid (d.413 h)
ومؤلفات المرتضى المتوفى سنة 436 هـ مع تعددها
Books of Murtada (d.436 h)
ومؤلفات الطوسي المتوفى سنة 460 هـ مع تعددها
Books of Tusi (d. 460 h)
ومؤلفات الطبرسي المتوفى سنة 548 مع تعددها
Books of Tabrasi (d. 548 h)

This is Clear corruption of the Main Shia books by every standard, it means they fabricated narrations (God knows how many) and placed Imaginary Sanads for them…

One of the biggest Arabic Mu’ujams(Dictionaries) says That the Minute or (Daqiqah) is a unit of measurement of time and it represents 1/60 from an entire hour as well as 60 seconds, it is also used to measure the vertical and horizontal lines … And that The use of the word to mean “time” Is Muhdath, meaning it’s a new word which never existed in the time of the Imams or Al Kafi.

المعجم الوسيط [1 /291]
( الدقيقة ) وحدة زمنية تعادل جزءا من ستين جزءا من الساعة ووحدة لقياس خطوط الطول أو العرض تساوي جزءا من ستين جزءا من الدرجة ( مج ) ( ج ) دقائق ( محدثة )

Dictionary: [Al Mu’ujam al Waseet 1/291.]

Some idiot who corrupted the books of Ibn Tawoos (d. 664 h) even made it worse by making the author calculate the birth of his son by the seconds!!!

[ Kashf al Mahajjah – Sayyed Ibn Tawoos page 4 / كشف المحجة لثمرة المهجة – السيد ابن طاووس – ص 4]

وكان ولدي ( علي ) شرفه الله جل جلاله طول مدته وأتحفه بكرامته قد دخل في السنة الثالثة من عمره وولادته ولد بعد مضي ثانيتين وست عشرة دقيقة من يوم الجمعة ثامن محرم سنة سبع وأربعين وستمائة بمشهد مولانا علي صلوات الله عليه وهما وديعتي عند الله جل جلاله

“My Son (Ali) who was honored by Allah the Great during the entire period of his life and was given from his Karamat he had entered his third year from his life And his Birth was after the passing of two seconds and sixteen minutes on Friday the 8th of Muharram 647 A.H in Mash-had of Mawlana Ali PBUH…”

Then we have another narration in al Kafi Volume 8 page 195 and page 196 narrated from a couple of their friends in which the Imam Abu Abdullah RAA is calculating the minutes between the Planets and then between the sun and planet earth Then between The Tree and the Board…

– عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ خَالِدٍ عَنِ ابْنِ فَضَّالٍ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ أَسْبَاطٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ سَيَابَةَ قَالَ قُلْتُ لِأَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) جُعِلْتُ لَكَ الْفِدَاءَ إِنَّ النَّاسَ يَقُولُونَ إِنَّ النُّجُومَ لَا يَحِلُّ النَّظَرُ فِيهَا وَ هِيَ تُعْجِبُنِي فَإِنْ كَانَتْ تُضِرُّ بِدِينِي فَلَا حَاجَةَ لِي فِي شَيْ‏ءٍ يُضِرُّ بِدِينِي وَ إِنْ كَانَتْ لَا تُضِرُّ بِدِينِي فَوَ اللَّهِ إِنِّي لَأَشْتَهِيهَا وَ أَشْتَهِي النَّظَرَ فِيهَا فَقَالَ لَيْسَ كَمَا يَقُولُونَ لَا تُضِرُّ بِدِينِكَ ثُمَّ قَالَ إِنَّكُمْ تَنْظُرُونَ فِي شَيْ‏ءٍ مِنْهَا كَثِيرُهُ لَا يُدْرَكُ وَ قَلِيلُهُ لَا يُنْتَفَعُ بِهِ تَحْسُبُونَ عَلَى طَالِعِ الْقَمَرِ ثُمَّ قَالَ أَ تَدْرِي كَمْ بَيْنَ الْمُشْتَرِي وَ الزُّهَرَةِ مِنْ دَقِيقَةٍ قُلْتُ لَا وَ اللَّهِ قَالَ أَ فَتَدْرِي كَمْ بَيْنَ الزُّهَرَةِ وَ بَيْنَ الْقَمَرِ مِنْ دَقِيقَةٍ قُلْتُ لَا قَالَ أَ فَتَدْرِي كَمْ بَيْنَ الشَّمْسِ وَ بَيْنَ السُّنْبُلَةِ مِنْ دَقِيقَةٍ قُلْتُ لَا وَ اللَّهِ مَا سَمِعْتُ مِنْ أَحَدٍ مِنَ الْمُنَجِّمِينَ قَطُّ قَالَ أَ فَتَدْرِي كَمْ بَيْنَ السُّنْبُلَةِ وَ بَيْنَ اللَّوْحِ الْمَحْفُوظِ مِنْ دَقِيقَةٍ قُلْتُ لَا وَ اللَّهِ مَا سَمِعْتُهُ مِنَ مُنَجِّمٍ قَطُّ قَالَ مَا بَيْنَ كُلِّ وَاحِدٍ مِنْهُمَا إِلَى صَاحِبِهِ سِتُّونَ أَوْ سَبْعُونَ دَقِيقَةً [شَكَّ عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ] ثُمَّ قَالَ يَا عَبْدَ الرَّحْمَنِ هَذَا حِسَابٌ إِذَا حَسَبَهُ الرَّجُلُ وَ وَقَعَ عَلَيْهِ عَرَفَ الْقَصَبَةَ الَّتِي فِي وَسَطِ الْأَجَمَةِ وَ عَدَدَ مَا عَنْ يَمِينِهَا وَ عَدَدَ مَا عَنْ يَسَارِهَا وَ عَدَدَ مَا خَلْفَهَا وَ عَدَدَ مَا أَمَامَهَا حَتَّى لَا يَخْفَى عَلَيْهِ مِنْ قَصَبِ الْأَجَمَةِ وَاحِدَةٌ . الكافي ج8 ص195-196

Now the Shia will jump and Say “Not all hadith in al Kafi are Sahih” well As you know that’s not the point, The Point is These are inserted after a few hundred years when clocks and their measuring units were invented, and those three narrations in al Kafi are believe it or not an Entire Chapter! this means that they were able to fabricate chapters and insert them into this book al kafi and no one even noticed. Thus the Problem is much bigger than Kulayni’s usual habit of lying and attributing it to the Imams, This means that Kulayni never actually wrote al kafi in the first place.
And Maybe just Maybe this happened when the Safavid Twelver Shia empire was ruling Iran in the 1700s … you know when there were Clocks around!! 🙂

Besides what knowledge is he gonna give him in one minute? Why wait for the last minute to give him all this knowledge of Mushaf fatima and The Mahdi’s True Quran and The Miracles of the past imams and How to Know the future and so on…. All in one minute? Unless he has a Flash memory USB that can contain One Terra-byte Then that would be more believable.

Even our beloved prophet muhamamd (pbuh) spend 23 yrs. learning!

While they claim that their Main Books of Usool are all Mutawatir from the Imams, the reality is quite bitter as they never really took care of their books, as you all know the Shia books of Usool are Four…Well that’s incorrect it’s Five books but one of them seems to have disappeared, the fifth is called “Madinat al Ilm” for Ibn babaweih al Saduq Which is TEN VOLUMES. Imagine the Muslims suddenly losing The Book of Sunan al tirmithy or Sahih Muslim…

This is the Father of Bahai al Amili (died 984 Hijri) saying:

وصول الأخيار إلى أصول الأخبار – والد البهائي العاملي – ص 85
وأصولنا الخمسة ( الكافي ) و ( مدينة العلم ) وكتاب ( من لا يحضره الفقيه ) و ( التهذيب ) و ( الاستبصار ) قد احتوت على أكثر الأحاديث المروية عن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله والأئمة المعصومين عليهم السلام عندنا و أهمها بحيث لا يشذ عنها الا النزر القليل .

“And Our Five Books of Usool (Al Kafi), (Madinat Al Ilm) and the book ( Man La Yahduruhu al Faqih) and (Tahtheeb) and (Istibsar) have contained the majority of narrated Hadiths from the prophet PBUH and his AluLbayt and the infallible Imams PBUT and contained the most important of them”
[Wusool al Akhyar Ila Usool al Akhbar – Walid al Bahai al Amili page 85]

Major classical Shia scholars narrated from that book Like Ibn tawoos (d. 664 H) and Allamah Al helli (d. 726 H) and Al Shaheed al Awwal (d. 786 H)… But Suddenly and for no apparent reason in the tenth century Hijri, the Book disappears and is no longer available and no one has ever seen it since.

About this topic, Grand Ayatullah Al Khoei said:

كتاب الطهارة السيد الخوئي – (7 / 452)
والراوي عن الصدوق هو الشهيد في الذكرى على ما في الوسائل والشهيد ثقة عدل يتبع روايته عن كتاب (مدينة العلم) وان كان هذا الكتاب غير موجود في عصرنا لانه مسروق ولكن الشهيد – حسب روايته – ينقل عن نفس الكتاب وطريقه إلى الكتاب معتبر كما يظهر من المراجعة إلى الطرق والاجازات وبه تكون الرواية مسندة وتخرج عن الاضمار والقطع

“And this book is not available in our times because it was stolen
[Kitab al Taharah – Sayyed Khoei 7/452]

About this topic, Abbas al Qummi said:

منازل الآخرة – الشيخ عباس القمي – (1 / 190)
والدعاء في فلاح السائل للسيّد ابن طاووس: ص 85، عن كتاب مدينة العلم للشيخ الصدوق، وهو من الكتب المهمّة بمنزلة التهذيب والفقيه وقد ضاع،

“And this is from the important books on the same level as Al Tahtheeb and al Faqih and it was lost
[Manazel al Akhirah – Sheikh Abbas al Qummi 1/190]

And who can believe that the second source of Shia Hadith suddenly disappeared after 600 years from which it was written!?

As I Said Only Allah knows how many narrations and passages they inserted in their main books like al Kafi in the later years.

As Imam al Shafi’i once rightly put it, That No One must follow the Shias because they have the habit of making up narrations and believing in them.

Al Kafi Screenshot:

المحقّق الخبير المولى أبو الحسن الشعراني :
[ إن أكثر أحاديث الأصول في الكافي غير صحيحة الإسناد
ولكنها معتمدة لاعتبار متونها وموافقتها للعقائد الحقّة
ولا ينظر في مثلها إلى الإسناد ]

The Giant Shia Muhaqqiq called Abu al Hassan al Sha’arani says:
“The Majority of the Hadiths of Usool in al Kafi are not Sahih in their Sanad but they are adopted because their Matn(Text) Agrees with the correct Aqeedah and we do not need to look at the Sanad in such narrations”
Source: [Miqyas al Hidayah 2/282, in the intro of Sharh al Jami’i Ala al Kafi]

العلامة المجلسي :
[ فإننا لا نحتاج إلى سند لهذه الأصول الأربعة
وإذا أوردنا سنداً
فليس إلا للتيمن والبركة والإقتداء بسنة السلف ]

Al Allamah Muhammad Baqir al Majlisi says:
We do Not need Sanad for the four books of Usool and when we place the Sanad we do it just out of blessing and to follow the Sunnah of our predecessors
Source:[Rasael abi al Ma’ali lil Majlisi page 459]

Note: This is Dangerous Stuff here, you know what this means? It means They have certain beliefs and they will search for anything which agrees to their beliefs, On the Other hand the Mainstream Muslims believe according to the proofs found in the books and not the other way around.


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Missing concept Of IMAMAT in Quran


Here i want to share something with my beloved readers from one of the online shia friend. I think this thread will help you to gain some excellent knowledge BUT YOU HAVE TO READ THIS THREAD VERY-VERY SINCERELY. Before everything i want to highlight some of his believes, which i observed from the past (may be some are wrong)

1. He believe that the Quran is preserved & same as that of sunni’s.

2. He believe that you can learn so much from the Quran just by watching the Taraweeh.

3. He respect sahaba’s because Quran respect sahaba’s.

4. Why ALLAH never showed any clear verse on imamat of 12 imams (which shia think is must of every believer, otherwise the one will be kafir), even ALLAH clearly defined the merits of sahaba’s! Then why not imamat?

My Assumption: I will quote the shia friend as F says; & other shia’s as O says:

Now lets start from the question he (F) asked (from where the discussion starts):

F says:

Something i’ve been curious with,
In surah al-Nisa, Allah(swt) lists a series of Prophets (pbut) then He(awj) says:
رُّسُلًا مُّبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنذِرِينَ لِئَلَّا يَكُونَ لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى اللَّـهِ حُجَّةٌ بَعْدَ الرُّسُلِ ۚ وَكَانَ اللَّـهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًا
Messengers, givers of glad-tidings and warnings, so that mankind doesn’t have a proof (hujjah) against God after the messengers. And God is Mighty, Wise (4:165)

The Shia say that we need the Imams so that we can’t have a proof (hujjah) against Allah(swt).
However, this verse appears to say that Allah(swt) sent the messengers so that mankind wouldn’t have a hujjah against Him after the messengers.

How do we explain this?

i have a number of other questions about Imamate in the Quran as well, but this is the first one that has confused me.

Then ofcourse series of foolish replies started by other shia’s, the repliers not once tried to even read the question depth sincerely!

Let me quote some sample of replies:

O says:

Your translation is off. In fact where are you getting your translation from?

Shakir translation: (We sent) messengers as the givers of good news and as warners, so that people should not have a plea against Allah after the (coming of) messengers; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Nothing to do with no one coming after messengers, its to do with the itmaam of hujjah. The Prophet (pbuh) has done the itmaam of hujjah, through the annoucement at Ghadeer, and thus the Imams (as) are the hujjah on behalf of the Prophet (pbuh).

then F says:

Whatever translation you use, it means the same thing. Allah(swt) sent Messengers so that we have no plea/arguement/proof against Him.

So how can we say we need Imamate for this when Allah(swt) said He sent Messengers(pbut) for this?

then O says:

1. Read the context.

2. You have two options here: either rusul is to be understood in the general sense, and that includes Imams,

3. or the simple answer, we need Imams (as) because the Messenger (pbuh) who has been sent as a hujjat has ordered us to follow them.

then F says:

1. i have; many times:

إِنَّا أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ كَمَا أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَىٰ نُوحٍ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ مِن بَعْدِهِ ۚ وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَعِيسَىٰ وَأَيُّوبَ وَيُونُسَ وَهَارُونَ وَسُلَيْمَانَ ۚ وَآتَيْنَا دَاوُودَ زَبُورًا
[Shakir 4:163] Surely We have revealed to you as We revealed to Nuh, and the prophets after him, and We revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and Isa and Ayub and Yunus and Haroun and Sulaiman and We gave to Dawood Psalms.

وَرُسُلًا قَدْ قَصَصْنَاهُمْ عَلَيْكَ مِن قَبْلُ وَرُسُلًا لَّمْ نَقْصُصْهُمْ عَلَيْكَ ۚ وَكَلَّمَ اللَّـهُ مُوسَىٰ تَكْلِيمًا
[Shakir 4:164] And (We sent) messengers We have mentioned to you before and messengers we have not mentioned to you; and to Musa, Allah addressed His Word, speaking (to him):

رُّسُلًا مُّبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنذِرِينَ لِئَلَّا يَكُونَ لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى اللَّـهِ حُجَّةٌ بَعْدَ الرُّسُلِ ۚ وَكَانَ اللَّـهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًا
[Shakir 4:165] (We sent) messengers as the givers of good news and as warners, so that people should not have a plea against Allah after the (coming of) messengers; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

لَّـٰكِنِ اللَّـهُ يَشْهَدُ بِمَا أَنزَلَ إِلَيْكَ ۖ أَنزَلَهُ بِعِلْمِهِ ۖ وَالْمَلَائِكَة ُ يَشْهَدُونَ ۚ وَكَفَىٰ بِاللَّـهِ شَهِيدًا
[Shakir 4:166] But Allah bears witness by what He has revealed to you that He has revealed it with His knowledge, and the angels bear witness (also); and Allah is sufficient as a witness.

2. How so? The verses only mentions messengers of God(swt) such as Moses(pbuh), Dawud(pbuh), etc.
Where in the entire Quran does Allah(swt) include the Imams in the meaning of “Rasul”?

3. How is it that al-Kulayni died the same year as the Greater Occultation began, yet his book isn’t filled with direct narrations either with the Imam or with his representatives?

O says:

There’s your answer. It is talking about previous communities.
Besides the next verse is very interesting, because it talks about the knowledge, which is in the book (6:63) which is in the Imam (13:43, 36:12)

F says:

What i mean to say is that how can the Shia say that there MUST be a hujjah on earth when Allah(swt) says that He sent the Messengers so that mankind would have NO argument against Him after the Messengers.

For example, if He didn’t send messengers, the people could say, “But God, you didn’t send us any Messengers”
But after the time of the Messengers, people can’t use that excuse because He sent Messengers to every group, so that people would have no argument against Him.

Besides, how exactly is Imam al-Mahdi a hujjah against us? When we have religious questions, do we ask him, or do we ask the scholars? When we pay khums, do we give it to him (12th imam) or do we give it to the scholars?
Does he (12th imam) pass fatwas, or do the scholars do?

O says:

Each age had hujjahs.

F says:

This raises another question. If every age has a divinely-appointed leader, then why in this verse…
إِنَّا أَنزَلْنَا التَّوْرَاةَ فِيهَا هُدًى وَنُورٌ ۚ يَحْكُمُ بِهَا النَّبِيُّونَ الَّذِينَ أَسْلَمُوا لِلَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالرَّبَّانِيُ ّونَ وَالْأَحْبَارُ بِمَا اسْتُحْفِظُوا مِن كِتَابِ اللَّـهِ وَكَانُوا عَلَيْهِ شُهَدَاءَ ۚ فَلَا تَخْشَوُا النَّاسَ وَاخْشَوْنِ وَلَا تَشْتَرُوا بِآيَاتِي ثَمَنًا قَلِيلًا ۚ وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّـهُ فَأُولَـٰئِكَ هُمُ الْكَافِرُونَ
[Shakir 5:44] Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.

Why did Allah(swt) entrust the Rabbis and Jewish scholars with the Torah? If the Jews had a divinely appointed leader at the time, surely Allah(swt) would have entrusted the Torah with that divinely-appointed leader, no? Instead He entrusted it to the Jewish Rabbis and scholars.
And this raises other questions of whether or not Imamate being a general theme in the Quran at all or no.

O says:

Come on, you’re acting like a Sunni here. The hadith of the Imam (AJ) w/r to scholars is very clear.

F says:

It’s a legitimate question. Does the Imam guide the scholars?

O says:

You don’t know anything. Please read the history of the time before you speak.

F says:

i have. For example, read the various accounts of people’s supposed messages to the 12 Imam in al-Mufid’s Irshad. Most of it is about money lol.

Then other O says:

And there’s no mention of “after” in the verse 4:165, you are adding words to the translation.
Comment: You can see without any proof, allegations & deviation started!
F says:
Are you serious?
رُّسُلًا مُّبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنذِرِينَ لِئَلَّا يَكُونَ لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى اللَّـهِ حُجَّةٌ بَعْدَ الرُّسُلِ ۚ وَكَانَ اللَّـهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًا
O says:
The Jews did have Imams.
[Shakir 32:24] And We made of them Imams to guide by Our command when they were patient, and they were certain of Our communications.
F says:
The verse you quoted is clear. From the followers of Musa (pbuh), there were righteous people who had patience and persevered and believed in the Signs of God, so God(swt) appointed them as leaders who guide people by His command (ie the Book of God and the Sunnah of Moses), but Allah(swt) doesn’t say that He inspired these people the way He did the Prophets:
وجعلناهم ائمة يهدون بامرنا واوحينا اليهم فعل الخيرات واقام الصلاة وايتاء الزكاة وكانوا لنا عابدين
[Shakir 21:73] And We made them Imams who guided (people) by Our command, and We revealed to them the doing of good and the keeping up of prayer and the giving of the alms, and Us (alone) did they serve

Also, the verse you mentioned doesn’t indicate infallibility, nor is it really evidence for Imamate for the Muslim ummah. It just says that there were leaders to guided people to God’s command. They could have been the ‘uelma of the Jewish nation.

O says:
Here is other verse of imam of previous nation:
[Yusufali 5:12] Allah did aforetime take a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we appointed twelve captains among them. And Allah said: “I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in my messengers, honour and assist them, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path or rectitude.”
F says:
Also akhi, notice how in 5:12, Allah(swt) didn’t tell the Jews to believe in the Imams. He just said to believe in the Messengers. He didn’t say the Messengers and the Imams.

Notice how in the entire Quran, Allah(swt) doesn’t clearly tell us to believe in the Imams. And there’s many evidences that show that the conception of Imamate wasn’t around. For instance, the verse i mentioned earlier says that Allah(swt) entrusted the Torwah with the Rabbis and Jewish scholars.

1. The verse you mentioned tells the Jews to believe in the Messengers.

مَا كَانَ لِبَشَرٍ أَن يُؤْتِيَهُ اللّهُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحُكْمَ وَالنُّبُوَّةَ ثُمَّ يَقُولَ لِلنَّاسِ كُونُواْ عِبَادًا لِّي مِن دُونِ اللّهِ وَلَـكِن كُونُواْ رَبَّانِيِّينَ بِمَا كُنتُمْ تُعَلِّمُونَ الْكِتَابَ وَبِمَا كُنتُمْ تَدْرُسُونَ
Shakir 3:79] It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and prophethood, then he should say to men: Be my servants rather than Allah’s; but rather (he would say): Be worshippers of the Lord because of your teaching the Book and your reading (it yourselves).

Allah(swt) gave people the Books, Wisdom, and Prophethood. Nothing about Imamate. Then the next verse:
وَلَا يَأْمُرَكُمْ أَن تَتَّخِذُوا الْمَلَائِكَةَ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ أَرْبَابًا ۗ أَيَأْمُرُكُم بِالْكُفْرِ بَعْدَ إِذْ أَنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ
[Shakir 3:80] And neither would he enjoin you that you should take the angels and the prophets for lords; what! would he enjoin you with unbelief after you are Muslims?

People made shirk with angels and Prophets, but not Imams; again, the conception of Imamate didn’t appear to have existed.

In the Quran, Allah(swt) emphasizes the angels more than the Imams:
مَنْ كَانَ عَدُوًّا لِلَّهِ وَمَلَائِكَتِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَجِبْرِيلَ وَمِيكَالَ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ عَدُوٌّ لِلْكَافِرِينَ
[Shakir 2:98] Whoever is the enemy of Allah and His angels and His messengers and Jibreel and Meekaeel, so surely Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers.

So whoever is an enemy of God and the angels and the Messengers is a kafir. Why didn’t He add “and the Imams” to this list??

Or:
…لَيْسَ الْبِرَّ أَنْ تُوَلُّوا وُجُوهَكُمْ قِبَلَ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ وَلَٰكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَالْمَلَائِكَة ِ وَالْكِتَابِ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ
[Shakir 2:177] It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteousness is this that one should believe in Allah and the last day and the angels and the Book and the prophets
(continuing to the end of the verse)

Here, God tells us to believe in Him, the Last Day, the angels, and the Book, and the Prophets. Why does He tell us to believe in the angels (even thought they don’t teach us the religion), yet He doesn’t tell us to believe in the Imams, who are supposed to be the inheritors of the Prophet(pbuh) and are supposed to be key figures in our religion, who are supposed to teach us our deen?

or:
آمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِن رَّبِّهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُون َ ۚ كُلٌّ آمَنَ بِاللَّـهِ وَمَلَائِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّن رُّسُلِهِ ۚ وَقَالُوا سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا ۖ غُفْرَانَكَ رَبَّنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ
[Shakir 2:285] The messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers; We make no difference between any of His messengers; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course.

He(swt) says that the true believers believe in God, the angels, His Books, and His Messengers. Why not His Imams?

Or:
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُحَادُّونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ أُولَٰئِكَ فِي الْأَذَلِّينَ
[Shakir 58:20] Surely (as for) those who are in opposition to Allah and His Messenger; they shall be among the most abased.

Not the Imams? The next verse:
كَتَبَ اللَّـهُ لَأَغْلِبَنَّ أَنَا وَرُسُلِي ۚ إِنَّ اللَّـهَ قَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ
[Shakir 58:21] Allah has written down: I will most certainly prevail, I and My messengers; surely Allah is Strong, Mighty.

God and the Messenger(pbuh) will prevail. Not the Imams?

Or:
وَإِذَا دُعُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ لِيَحْكُمَ بَيْنَهُمْ إِذَا فَرِيقٌ مِنْهُمْ مُعْرِضُونَ
[Shakir 24:48] And when they are called to Allah and His Messenger that he may judge between them, lo! a party of them turn aside

They aren’t called for the Imams to judge between them?

أَفِي قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ أَمِ ارْتَابُوا أَمْ يَخَافُونَ أَن يَحِيفَ اللَّـهُ عَلَيْهِمْ وَرَسُولُهُ ۚ بَلْ أُولَـٰئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ
[Shakir 24:50] Is there in their hearts a disease, or are they in doubt, or do they fear that Allah and His Messenger will act wrongfully towards them? Nay! they themselves are the unjust.

إِنَّمَا كَانَ قَوْلَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ إِذَا دُعُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ لِيَحْكُمَ بَيْنَهُمْ أَنْ يَقُولُوا سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا ۚ وَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ
[Shakir 24:51] The response of the believers, when they are invited to Allah and His Messenger that he may judge between them, is only to say: We hear and we obey; and these it is that are the successful.

Shouldn’t Allah(swt) invite us to be judge by the Imams as well?

وَمَنْ يُطِعِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَخْشَ اللَّهَ وَيَتَّقْهِ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْفَائِزُونَ
[Shakir 24:52] And he who obeys Allah and His Messenger, and fears Allah, and is careful of (his duty to) Him, these it is that are the achievers.

You see where i’m going with this. i could quote dozens and dozens of other verses and i don’t find the Shia of conception of Imamate in the Quran, neither in clear verses nor as a general theme.

And no matter how man Sheikhs i ask, i can never get a straight answer. All i get is long philosophical justifications and stringing together unrelated verses through back door tactics to try to prove this doctrine. Nothing clear from Allah(swt). Just like how the Christians do with the trinity.

But the Quran isn’t like this. If it’s important, it should be blatantly clear. Allah(swt) says:
كِتَابٌ فُصِّلَتْ آيَاتُهُ قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا لِّقَوْمٍ يَعْلَمُونَ
[Shakir 41:3] A Book of which the verses are made plain, an Arabic Quran for a people who know

2. Yet we cannot get a single verse where Allah(swt) tells us to obey the Imams after the Messenger or where He tells the Prophet(pbuh) to appoint a successor to take over the affair.

This is something i’ve struggled with. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and God bless

Comment: You can see the verses showed by him really strong enough against imamat of shia faith.
O says:
1. Yes, but there was no Imamate when these verses were revealed. However, as the inheritors of the knowledge of the Prophet (pbuh), the Imams  take his place in our understanding of these verses. The Quran is after all for all time, so these verses must have some relevance after the time of the Prophet (pbuh).
2. I don’t think this was necessary. When the Prophet  announced his prophethood, he was expected to be believed based on his qualities and signs that he brought. It wasn’t as if he pointed to some other book to justify his claim. The same would go for the other Imams . It was obvious that they were the rightful leaders, not just based on their qualities, but the fact that the Prophet explicitly designated Imam Ali  as his successor, and the fact that Imam Hasan and Imam Husayn  would be the leaders of the youth of Paradise. Would it make sense for them to hold that position if they weren’t the best of people on earth? There are many other things as well, but I know you are of course familiar with them, I’m just bringing this up as a reminder.

If such a quality of leadership would continue up to the grandsons of the Prophet, why not afterwards? The hadith on the 12 leaders after the Prophet is mutawatir, and it’s difficult to accept that there could be any drop off in quality after the first 3(or even 1).

As for whether there was this concept of non-Prophet Imams in previous times, I have no idea.

Comment: As usual zero IQ answer.
Other F says:
So when a “wahhaabee/salafee” quotes a Qur’aanic verse, you guys study the context of the verse, and tell him “hey, you are taking it out of context”. But when you guys want to prove your point, you don’t care what the previous verse or the context of the revelation, you’ll just use it to promote your preconceived beliefs and notion. I love the consistency.
O says:
Allah (swt) could have clearly laid out in clearest terms Imamate, but he wrote it in a way in Quran where it’s test of sincerity, and the sincerity is how we take in the Ghadeer declaration.
F says:
Why would He(swt) leave such a vital thing vague and unclear in His Books where He has made so many less important concepts clear to us?
Am i really expected to make something a crucial part of my religion when God Almighty doesn’t make it clear in His Book. The Book where He says He explains everything clearly?
That’s the thing that i have the most difficulty with.
O says:
The verse 5:67 makes it clear that while it’s not blantantly clear in Quran ,the ghadeer declaration was blantantly clear. If people accept the clear message of Ghadeer, then they will find the topic of Ghadeer declaration in Quran, where it’s explained in detail, but in less clear ways.
F says:
Alas our view of Ghadeer strikes me as odd as well. How is it that 10’s of thousands of Muslims who fought alongside the Prophet  in the way of Allah(swt) with their lives, their wealth, and their property suddenly reject the Prophet’s(pbuh) final message?
Some of these Companions used to jostle with one another to drink the wudhu of the Prophet  or to have piece of his blessed hair because they loved him so such.

Look how ALI HIMSELF describes some of the Companions:

I have seen the companions of the Prophet but I do not find anyone resembling them. They began the day with dust on the hair and face (in hardship of life) and passed the night in prostration and standing in prayers. Sometimes they put down their foreheads and sometimes their cheeks. With the recollection of their resurrection it seemed as though they stood on live coal. It seemed that in between their eyes there were signs like knees of goats, resulting from long prostrations. When Allah was mentioned their eyes flowed freely till their shirt collars were drenched. They trembled for fear of punishment and hope of reward as the tree trembles on the day of stormy wind.

Would Imam Ali eulogize a group of people who supposed apostates after the Prophet(pbuh) in such a beautiful manner? Would people like this really abandon the Prophet’s(pbuh) words?

Or look how Allah(swt) describes the Muhajirs:
الَّذِينَ إِنْ مَكَّنَّاهُمْ فِي الْأَرْضِ أَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتَوُا الزَّكَاةَ وَأَمَرُوا بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَنَهَوْا عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ ۗ وَلِلَّهِ عَاقِبَةُ الْأُمُورِ
Those who, should We establish them in the land, will keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and enjoin good and forbid evil; and Allah’s is the end of affairs. (22:41)


And you know how Allah(swt) glorifies the Muhajireen and Ansar (the former especially) time and again in the Quran. Or look what Allah(swt) says about the Ummah of Muhammad  as a whole:
كُنتُمْ خَيْرَ أُمَّةٍ أُخْرِجَتْ لِلنَّاسِ تَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَتَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ وَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّـهِ
[Shakir (a part of) 3:110] You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah

Allah(swt) tells us those people (sahaba’s) were the BEST nation from mankind, yet the Shia try to portray them as borderline munafiqs.
This beautiful verse tells us they were the BEST of nations and they encourage the good and forbid the evil and that they believe in God.

Would a group of people whom Allah(swt) describes as the best of people, whom Ali himself eulogizes, whom Allah(swt) says encourages the good and forbid the evil… would a group of people like this stab the Prophet  in the back like that? Very strange.

i’m not going to say that a Companion is every Muslim who saw the Prophet , nor am i going to say the all of the Companions were perfect ma’sum people. But the Ummah as a whole was a good Ummah.

So i find our view of Ghadeer to be strange as well.

O says:
I have a question for you, is the concept of a mystic exalted high families type meaning as we understand it, do you find this at least in the Quran? Let’s start with this , and inshallah, we will see if it’s in Quran or not.
F says:
i don’t understand what this means
Do you mean like certain families that have been favored/raised above all others? If so, then of course:
إِنَّ اللَّـهَ اصْطَفَىٰ آدَمَ وَنُوحًا وَآلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَآلَ عِمْرَانَ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ
Surely God has chosen Adam and Noah and Aal Ibrahim and Aal ‘Imran over the words(3:33)

However, you should also be aware of the fact that there were many other pious and knowledgeable scholars from the progeny of Hasan and Husayn other than the 9 that the Ithna ‘Ashari emphasize. There was a reason why so many Shia believed in the Imamate of Zayd (ra) and the others.

INSHALLAH I WILL CONTINUE THIS TOPIC IN PART2..

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Zurarah died the death of ignorance


Warning the biggest Narrator of the Shia Zurarah bin Ayyun who was close of Al Baqir and al Sadiq, He dies without recognizing the Imam of his time and dies the death of ignorance!!

ولما وقع الموت في زرارة واشتد به …..
قال لعمته : ناوليني المصحف ، فأخذ المصحف وفتحه ووضعه على صدره وقال : يا عمة اشهدي أن ليس لي إمام غير هذا الكتاب …..
رجال الكشي 139

And when the coming of death became harsher on Zurarah…
He said to his aunt: Hand the Quran over to me, So he took the book and opened it and placed it on his chest and said: O Aunt bear witness That I have No Imam except for this book.
Source: Rijal Al Kesshi 139.

This means he’s a Kaffir according to Shia.

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Fatwa of Shia ayatullah: Aisha(ra) committed zina


Fatwa on the official Site of Ayatullah Al Muhaqqiq al Sheikh Muhammad Jamil humud Al Amili which says Aisha RAA committed Zinah:

The Question:

What is the result of your research regarding Aisha as for her doing Zinah(Adultery) or Fahishah(Extreme Sin) and the narrations which are to that effect and the different opinions and what is the reply to those who explain the Fahishah as something other than Zinah from a linguistic sense? and from the narrations I know:

Ali bin Ibrahim RAA in his Tafseer he says regarding the saying of Allah “Allah presents an example”[Al Tahreem:10] The Allah placed them both as an example so he said: “Allah presents an example of those who disbelieved: the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot. They were under two of Our righteous servants but betrayed them” [Al Tahrim: 10] Ali bin Ibrahim said: By Allah When he said that They betrayed them he meant Fahishah(Zinah), And to make al Hadd(execution) on Aisha who committed this act on her way to Basrah, and Talha used to love her so when she wanted to leave for Basrah he told her: ” You cannot leave without Mahram, So she married herself to him”.

Al Imam al Baqir PBUH and in it is his saying “He only meant Al Fahishah” and al Kulayni RAA narrated this in al Kafi from Ali bin Ibrahim with its Sanad from Zurarah, he also narrated it from Muhammad bin Yahya Al Attar with another Sanad from Zurarah RAA, And Al hurr al Amili narrated it from Kulayni in his Wasael just like Furat al Kufi narrated it in his Tafseer ect…

Answer by rafidi shia Ayatullah:

What al Kulayni and Ali bin Ibrahim and others have narrated regarding Aisha is SAHIH according to what it’s apparent to be, and these are trustworthy narrations and all of these are correct unless they contradict the Quran and the Mutawatir Sunnah and our Usool of Aqeedah… And what you mentioned about Aisha I don’t see that it contradicts our base in Aqeedah nor the book and the pure sunnah, So why make a big deal from it and make condemnation from such clear betrayal which we mentioned in our Sahih Hadiths while they(sunnies) only hinted towards it?

(he continues and finishes his Fatwa by Saying)………

So if according to Aisha the adult can suckle from a female so why should it not be Talha who suckled from her since he used to love her like the sources of the mainstream Muslims state? and is the suckling of the lover like that of the hater? And did his suckling from her not enrage his manhood? And did she not arouse her Shahwa when she allowed him to suckle? all of these are questions which need answers from the unbiased and not the haters.

Here is the link: http://www.aletra.org/subject.php?id=22

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Imam hussain forbade matam


Here is some relevant narration from Imam hussain recorded by non other than shia alim sheikh mufeed in al-irshad.

Translation:

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Imam Ali(as) allegiance to Abu Bakr(ra)


Watch & enjoy. See the pale face of shia debater. 😉

Now see this:

Now lets move to shia sahih hadith on this issue:

According to shia’s: Ali (ra) didn’t explicitly protested, nor invited people for his khilafah because he knows the future that, they will reject him! Therefore he never tried to call upon them once for the sake of ALLAH!

It is really confusing, than what is the duty of divinely appointed imam? According to shia Ali(ra) never called anyone for his right of khalifat, then how can you blame others for this!

1.

أبى رحمه الله قال: حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله قال: حدثنا احمد بن محمد ابن عيسى، عن العباس بن معروف، عن حماد بن عيسى، عن حريز، عن بريد بن معاوية، عن أبى جعفر ” ع ” قال: ان عليا ” ع ” لم يمنعه من ان يدعو الناس إلى نفسه إلا انهم ان يكونوا ضلالا لا يرجعون عن الاسلام أحب إليه من ان يدعوهم فيأبوا عليه فيصيرون كفارا كلهم.

Imam Baqir (as) said that he (Ali (as)) preferred that they should err and not forsake Islam rather than that he should call upon them and that they should refuse him and thereby become unbelievers.

Source:

  • Al-Sadooq, ‘ilal Al-Sharaa-‘, vol. 1, pg. 150, hadeeth #10
  • Al-Majlisi, Bihaar Al-Anwaar, vol. 29, pg. 440

The chain is sahih. Lets examine:

سعد بن عبد الله is thiqah (trustworthy) according to.

  • Al-Najaashee, Rijaal, pg. 178
  • Al-Toosi, Fihrist, pg. 216
  • Al-Toosi, Rijaal, pg. 427
  • Al-Hillee, Al-KhulaaSah, pg. 79

أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى is thiqah according to:

  • Al-Najaashee, Rijaal, pg. 83
  • Al-Toosi, Fihrist, pg. 61
  • Al-Toosi, Rijaal, pg. 351
  • Al-Kashee, Rijaal, pg. 596

العباس بن معروف is thiqah according to:

  • Al-Najaashee, Rijaal, pg. 281
  • Al-Toosi, Rijaal, pg. 361
  • Al-Hillee, Al-KhulaaSah, pg. 118

حماد بن عيسى is thiqah according to:

  • Al-Najaashee, Rijaal, pg. 143
  • Al-Toosi, Fihrist, pg. 157
  • Al-Toosi, Rijaal, pg. 334
  • Al-Hillee, Al-KhulaaSah, pg. 56
  • Al-Kashee, Rijaal, pg. 375

حريز بن عبد الله السجستاني‏ = حريز and he is thiqah according to:

  • Al-Toosi, Fihrist, pg. 162
  • Al-Khoei, Mu’jam Al-Rijaal, vol. 4, pg. 249, person # 2637

بريد بن معاوية is thiqah according to:

  • Al-Hillee, Al-KhulaaSah, pg. 27
  • Al-Najaashee, Rijaal, pg. 1112
  • Ibn Daawood, Rijaal, pg. 67 & 430
  • Al-Kashee, Rijaal, pg. 148

As you can see, the chain is impeccable. This narration is Sahih.

2. Shia also have the hadith which says that: Ali(ra) and all of the A’imma of the Ahl al-Bayt i.e. 10 imams (This proves that Hassan(ra) gave bayah to Muawiyah(ra) & even Hussain(ra) gave bayah to yazeed!), except for the twelfth Imam , gave bayah to the tyrants of their times. In fact, this is one reason for the ghayba and zhuhur.

As Imam said in his tawqi` to Ishaq b. Ya`qub:

وأما علة ما وقع من الغيبة فإن الله عزوجل يقول : « يا أيها الذين آمنوا لا تسئلوا عن أشياء إن تبد لكم تسؤكم » ( 2 ) إنه لم يكن لاحد من آبائي عليهم السلام إلا وقد وقعت في عنقه بيعة لطاغية زمانه ، وإني أخرج حين أخرج ، ولا بيعة لاحد من الطواغيت في عنقي .

And as to the cause of the transpiring of the occultation, then verily Allah (aj) says: ‘O you who believe! Do not ask about (those) things which if revealed to you would torment you’ [Surat al Ma’idah: 102]. Verily there was not one from my fathers عليهم السلام but there happened to be the bayah (pledge of allegiance) to the despot of his time on his neck, and I will emerge when I will emerge and there shall not be the bay`ah of anyone of the despots on my neck.

Source: Kamaal al Deen Wa Tamam al Ni`mah of Shaykh al Saduq, Chapter 45, Mention of the Epistles (Tauqee`aat) That Have Reached from the Qa’im ( ذكر التوقيعات الواردة عن القائم عليه السلام)

More hadiths can be found on Kamal al-Din, p315, Hadith #2 & al-Ihtijaj, v2, p289;; v2, p469 & Bihar al-Anwar, v44, p19, Hadith #3;; v51, p132, Hadith #1;; v52, p92, Hadith #7 & Kitab al-Ghaiba, al-Tusi, p290 etc.

& then suddenly a letter from Najhul-balagha:

إنه بايعني القوم الذين بايعوا أبا بكر وعمر وعثمان ، على ما بايعوهم عليه ، فلم يكن للشاهد أن يختار ولا للغائب أن يرد ، وإنما الشورى للمهاجرين والأنصار ، فإن اجتمعوا على رجل وسموه إماماً كان ذلك لله رضى فإن خرج منهم خارج بطعن أو بدعة ردوه إلى ماخرج منه فإن أبى قاتلوه على اتباعه غير سبيل المؤمنين ، وولاه الله ما تولى

Verily, the people who payed allegience to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman, have payed allegience to me based on the same principles as the allegience to them. So anyone who was present has no right to go against his pledge of allegience, and anyone who was absent has no right to oppose it. And verily shura (consultation) is only the right of the Muhajirs and the Ansar. So if they decide upon a man and declare him their imam, then it is with the pleasure of Allah. If anyone goes against this decision, then he must be persuaded to follow the rest of the people. If he persists, then fight with him for leaving that which has been accepted by the believers. And Allah shall let him wander misguided and not guide him. (Nahjul-Balaghah, Letter #6)

When you show above sahih shia hadith to rafida, they will start claiming that Imam Ali gave bayah after 6months after the death of her wife i.e. fatima bint muhammad(pbuh) & this is recorded in sahih bukhari/sahih muslim & etc. etc. They will try to confuse you by raising the question: Why Ali(ra) didnot went instantly along with others for bayah? Why he wait for 6months?

Now the question arise why Ali(ra) wait for 6months? Lets see what how shia alim solved this mystery?

It has been recounted in many traditions that after receiving allegiance from the community, Abu Bakr sent someone to Ali and asked for his allegiance. Ali said, “I have promised not to leave my house except for the daily prayers until I compile the Quran.” And it has been mentioned that Ali gave his allegiance to Abu Bakr after six months. This itself is proof that Ali had finished compiling the Quran. Likewise, it has been recounted that after compiling the Quran he placed the pages of the Holy Book on a camel and showed it to the people. It is also recounted that the battle of Yamamah after which the Quran was compiled, occurred during the second year of the caliphate of Abu Bakr. These facts have been mentioned in most works on history and hadith which deal with the account of the compilation of the Holy Quran.

Book “Shia” by Allamah Tabatabai, page 10. http://www.ummah.net/khoei/shia/ ,or u can download from here.

Now i ask you O SHIA: If Ali(ra) never claimed his right of khalifat only because the peoples & islam would divide & peoples would become kafir, then WHY YOU SHIA OPENLY CLAIM THIS?  Why your imam Baqir said this?

DON’T YOU & YOUR IMAM BAQIR LOVE TO FOLLOW IMAM ALI?

WHY ARE YOU DIVIDING THIS UMMAH; BY AGAIN & AGAIN RAISING THE ISSUE OF KHALIFAT OF ABU BAKR(RA)?

I just want to say: Subhân Allâh, and those guys are the one who says ‘They don’t know what ‘Ali(ra) was’? You guys have forsaken the foremost attribute of Sayyidunâ Ali (ra). And may Allâh’s curse be upon who fabricated this and accused the Mawlâ of believers concealing the command of the Dîn.

Contributed by Nadir zaveri, Jondab Azdi

Update version: 1.2

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Maghrib salah time in shiaism


Previously we discussed fasting time & maghrib time accorrding to shia sahih hadiths now lets move to more hadiths on maghrib salah time which are very clear in all respect.

In Shiaism, the maghrib salaah begins when the sun sets, and the disappearance of the redness from the eastern horizon. (as we discussed before in above link).

Now lets see what other Shia sahih hadith says:

Here is Al-Toosi talking about the timing of Salaah Al-Maghrib:

و أوّل وقت صلاة المغرب عند غيبوبة الشّمس. و علامته سقوط القرص. و علامة سقوطه عدم الحمرة من جانب المشرق. و آخر وقته سقوط الشّفق، و هو الحمرة من ناحية المغرب

“The first time of Salaah Al-Maghrib is at the disappearance of the sun, and the sign is the falling of the disk (sun’s disk) (i.e sunset). The sign of the sunset is the absence of the redness (in the sky) from the east side. The final time (of maghrib) is the disappearance of the shafaq (evening twilight), and it is the (disappearance of) redness in terms of the west side.

Source: Al-Toosi, Al-Nihaayah fee Majarrad Al-Fiqh wa Al-Fataawa, pg. 59

Now, unfortunately a lot of Shias delay their Maghrib Salaah until the appearance of stars in the sky, sometimes you see this happening in Shia Masjid as well!!

Now see what shia imam said about these people (i.e shia’s) who delay there maghrib salah to dark:

1.

وَ عَنْهُ عَنِ الْعَبَّاسِ بْنِ مَعْرُوفٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ الْمُغِيرَةِ عَنْ ذَرِيحٍ قَالَ قُلْتُ لِأَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع إِنَّ أُنَاساً مِنْ أَصْحَابِ أَبِي الْخَطَّابِ يُمَسُّونَ بِالْمَغْرِبِ حَتَّى تَشْتَبِكَ النُّجُومُ قَالَ أَبْرَأُ إِلَى اللَّهِ مِمَّنْ فَعَلَ ذَلِكَ مُتَعَمِّداً

“I said to Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) that people from companions of Abee Al-Khattaab (do) maghrib in the dark until the appearance of stars. He (عليه السلام) said: Allaah (سبحانه و تعالى) does bara’a (disassociates from him) from one who does this intentionally.

Source: Al-Toosi, Tahdheeb Al-ahkaam, vol. 2, pg. 33, hadeeth # 53 & Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Sahih in à Milaadh Al-Akhyaar, vol. 3, pg. 407

2.

وَ قَالَ قُلْتُ لَهُ إِنَّ أُنَاساً مِنْ أَصْحَابِ أَبِي الْخَطَّابِ يُمَسُّونَ بِالْمَغْرِبِ حَتَّى تَشْتَبِكَ النُّجُومُ قَالَ فَقَالَ أَبْرَأُ إِلَى اللَّهِ مِمَّنْ يَفْعَلُ هَذَا مُتَعَمِّداً

“I said to Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) that people from companions of Abee Al-Khattaab (do) maghrib in the dark until the appearance of stars. He (عليه السلام) said: Allaah (سبحانه و تعالى) does bara’a (disassociates from him) from one who does this intentionally.

Source: Al-Toosi, Tahdheeb Al-aHkaam, vol. 2, pg. 253 – 254, hadeeth # 41 & Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq (reliable) in à Milaadh Al-Akhyaar, vol. 4, pg. 309

3.

و بهذا الإسناد عن إبراهيم عن أبي أسامة قال قال رجل لأبي عبد الله (ع) أؤخر المغرب حتى تستبين النجوم؟ قال فقال خطابية إن جبريل أنزلها على رسول الله (ص) حين سقط القرص.

“A man (asked) Abaa `Abd Allaah about delaying maghrib (salaah) until the appearance of stars? He said, So he said: Khataabiyyah, Verily Jibra’eel revealed onto the Messenger of Allaah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) the period (of maghrib is) the dropping of the disk (sun’s disk) (i.e sunset).

Source: Al-Toosi, Tahdheeb al-ahkaam, vol. 2, ch. 13, pg. 258, hadeeth # 64 & Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq (Reliable) in à Milaadh Al-Akhyaar, vol. 4, pg. 319

Other Sources to this hadeeth: 1. Al-Kashee, Ikhtiyaar Ma`aarifah Al-Rijaal, pg. 290, hadeeth # 5102.

4. Al-Toosi, Tahdheeb al-ahkaam, vol. 2, ch. 3, pg. 28, hadeeth # 313.

5. Al-Toosi, Tahdheeb al-ahkaam, vol. 2, ch. 3, pg. 32, hadeeth # 49

Shia also have other narrations that allude to the extreme hatred of delaying prayers until the stars appear in the sky.

6.

وَ قَالَ الصَّادِقُ ع مَلْعُونٌ مَلْعُونٌ مَنْ أَخَّرَ الْمَغْرِبَ طَلَباً لِفَضْلِهَا وَ قِيلَ لَهُ إِنَّ أَهْلَ الْعِرَاقِ يُؤَخِّرُونَ الْمَغْرِبَ حَتَّى تَشْتَبِكُ النُّجُومُ فَقَالَ هَذَا مِنْ عَمَلِ عَدُوِّ اللَّهِ أَبِي الْخَطَّابِ

“And Al-Saadiq (عليه السلام) said: Accursed Accursed (mal`oon mal`oon) is whoever delays maghrib (salaah) from the claim of its fadeelah (time). And He said to him, the people of iraq delay maghrib (salaah) until the appearance of stars. So he (عليه السلام) said: This is from the actions of the enemy of Allaah (سبحانه و تعالى) Abee Al-Khattaab

Source: Al-Sadooq, Man Laa Yahduruh Al-Faqeeh, vol. 1, pg. 220, hadeeth # 661

No doubt sunni’s follow sunnah of S.A.W. (pbuh) i.e. why they pray maghrib salah in correct time.

Lets see Sunni books that talks about the extreme dislike of delaying the maghrib salaah until the appearance of stars in the sky:

1.

لا تزال أمتي على الفطرة ما لم يؤخروا المغرب حتى تشتبك النجوم

The Messenger of Allaah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم): “My ummah will continue to adhere to the fitrah so long as they do not delay Maghrib prayer until the stars appear.”

Source: Ibn Maajah, Sunan, hadeeth # 689 & Al-Albaani said this hadeeth is Sahih in à Sahih wa Da`eef Sunan Ibn Maajah, vol. 2, pg. 261, hadeeth # 689

2.

لا تزال أمتي بخير أو قال على الفطرة ما لم يؤخروا المغرب إلى أن تشتبك النجوم

The Messenger of Allaah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: “My community will remain well, or he said: will remain on its natural condition, so long as it would not delay the evening prayer until the stars appear.”

Source: Ibn Dawood, Sunan, hadeeth # 418 & Al-Albaani said this hadeeth is Hasan Sahih in à Sahih wa Da`eef Sunan Ibn Abee Dawood, vol. 1, pg. 79, hadeeth # 418.

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